Urubanza rushinjwamo Dr. Munyemana Sosthène kugira uruhare muri jenoside yakorerwe Abatutsi mu Rwanda mu 1994 rurarimbanyije. Mu gihe cya jenoside yari umuganga w’abagore mu Bitaro bya kaminuza i Butare. Ni urwa 6 ruri kuburanishwa n’Urukiko rwa Rubanda ruherereye i Paris mu Bufaransa. Mu kiganiro PAX PRESS (PXP) yagiranye na Perezida wa IBUKA mu Bufaransa, bwana Marcel Kabanda (M.K) yatangaje icyo bizeye mu manza nk’izi, imbogamizi babonamo ndetse n’ibyakosorwa kugira ngo ubutabera butangwe byuzuye kandi mu gihe gikwiye.
- PAX PRESS (PXP)
- Marcel KABANDA (M.K)
PXP: Uri ni urubanza rwa 6 rubereye muri urukiko. Ese nkamwe abarokotse jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi ndetse na Ibuka muri rusange, mwakiriye mute izi manza?
M.K: Ishami rya IBUKA mu Bufaransa ryinjiye mu bintu by’imanza ku rubanza rwa 2 rwari rwerekeye ba burugumesitiri ba Kabarondo, Barahira Tito na Ngenzi Octavien. Mbere yahoo twari twarashyize imbaraga ku kibazo cyo ‘’kwibuka’’ kubera ko mu Bufaransa hari ikibazo gikomeye cyo guhakana no gupfobya jenoside, hakaba hariho n’abantu batazi ibyabaye mu Rwanda. Twaje kwinjira mu byo gukurikirana abashinjwa kugira uruhare muri jenoside ku rubanza rwa 2.
Ikindi mugomba kumenya, hano imanza zaratinze. Urubanza rwa mbere rwabaye mu 2014, bivuze ko hari hashize imyaka 20 nta rubanza ruhari nyamara hari amadosiye abitse mu rukiko. Kurega abakekwaho kugira uruhare muri jenoside byatangiye mu 1995 ikarangira nyamara urubanza rwa mbere ruba hashize imyaka 20, ni urwerekeye Capt. Simbikangwa. Ubwo kuva mu 2014 hamaze kuba imanza 6.
Kabanda Marcel, Perezida wa IBUKA mu Bufaransa
Kuva mu 2012 hano bashyizeho urwego rushinzwe gukurikirana ibyo byaha, bivuga ngo hari ibyagiye bikorwa byiza, gusa hari ibyahinduka: nko kuvuga ngo umuntu arashinjwa urubanza hano i Paris ariko abamwunganira cyangwa abacamanza ukumva baravuga ngo ‘’ntabwo twumva ibyo bariya bantu bavuga, mu Rwanda abantu barabeshya, Leta ya Kagame ibashyiraho igitutu, ntabwo bavuga ukuri bavuga ibyo babwiwe…’’ Haracyariho ikintu cyo kutizera Leta y’u Rwanda, cyo kutizera abacikacumu ngo ntibavuga ukuri nk’aho hari umuntu ushobora kuza ngo abeshyere undi ngo wowe wanyiciye umubyeyi kandi atari byo. Gusa no kuba zaratangiye na byo ni ibyo kwishimira.
PXP: Ni iki ubona cyakuraho iyo myumvire wari uvuze haruguru?
M.K: Nta kindi cyabikuraho uretse ko abashinjwa bagenda bagacirirwa imanza aho bikekwa ko bakoreye icyaha, bigakorwa n’abacamanza bumva neza ururimi baburanamo, bazi n’umuco nyarwanda… Nka bariya bunganira abacamanza twagereranya n’Inyangamugayo z’iwacu ni abantu bafata muri rubanda nta kintu gifatika kigendeweho, ariko burya inyangamugayo zo mu Rwanda ntabwo zari zizi amategeko ariko zari zizi u Rwanda kandi zacaga imanza ku musozi zizi n’abo zicira imanza ndetse n’abapfuye. Naho abangaba bo baraza bakumva ibivugwa nyuma bakazavuga niba uvugwa ari umwere cyangwa niba atari we.
Kuba abantu bacibwa imanza mu Rwanda rero babanje kubyanga ngo mu Rwanda harimo igihano cy’urupfu, icyo cyavuyeho. Nyuma ngo mu Rwanda ntabwo baca imanza hakurikijwe amategeko, icyo cyavuyeho. Ubundi ngo amategeko ahana jenoside yagiyeho nyuma y’uko iba. None se ino abaciriwe imanza nyuma ya jenoside yakorewe Abayahudi, ntibaciriwe imanza hakurikijwe amategeko yashyizweho ya jenoside? Jenoside yakozwe na Leta, none se yari gushyiraho amategeko ahana jenoside kandi igambiriye kuyikora kandi izi ko hari n’ibindi byabaye mu 1963 byakwitwa jenoside? Leta yagombaga gukora ibyo ishoboye byose ngo ayo mategeko ntajyeho kuko yari izi ko yazacirwa urubanza hakurikije ayo mategeko kandi ari yo yayashyizeho.
Tugaruke ku bantu baza gutanga ubuhamya rero cyangwa abaregera indishyi. Ibaze nkawe ari ubwa ubwa mbere uvuye mu Rwanda, ukubiswe n’imbeho, urabona ibintu utigeze ubona, baguhamagaye imbere y’abacamanza ngo ngaho tanga ubuhamya…wowe urumva intambara waba urwana na yo kugira ngo uvuge ibintu byumvikana? (…) Ibyiza bajya mu Rwanda bagacibwa imanza aho bashinjwa gukorera ibyaha n’abatangabuhamya ntibibarushye, bakavuga mu rurimi bumvikanaho kuko hari n’ubwo abasemuzi baba batumvishe neza icyo yavuze bakabivuga nabi. Iyo umutangabuhamya erega atumva igifaransa ntiyahagarika usemura ngo amubwire ko asubiyemo nabi ibyo yavuze. Gusa abasemuzi ba hano bakora neza, ariko nanone kwirirwa hariya wumva ibintu bivugwa hari akantu kagucika.
Icya nyuma navuga, izi manza zirahenze, zitwara amafaranga menshi cyane. Nk’ubu kuri Munyemana, reba kohereza abantu kujya kureba aho yakoreye ibyaha, kuzana abatangabuhamya, kuriha abavoka… byose Leta irabiriha. Ayo mafaranga yagombye gukoreshwa mu guha indishyi abakorewe icyaha, yagombye guhabwa nka ‘’fondation’’ ikazajya iyaha abagenewe indishyi. Ubu amafaranga aragenda muri ubwo buryo budasobanutse sinzi niba bizahinduka.
Urukiko rwa Rubanda rwo mu Bufaransa ruburanishirizwamo imanza z’ibyaha bikomeye birimo jenoside, iby’intambara n’ibyibasiye inyokomuntu (Ifoto: Higiro A.)
PXP: Wari ukomoje ku ndishyi. Niba imyaka ibaye 30 jenoside ibaye, mu manza 6 zabereye aha ababonye indishyi bakaba ari abo mu rubanza rumwe, abarokotse jenoside bafite icyizere cyo kuba bazabona indishyi baregeye cyangwa bazaregera bakazitsindira mu manza zindi zizakurikiraho?
M.K: Twizeye ko Leta yiyemeje gutanga ibyo yateganyije ngo izi manza zibe izabikora. Imyaka ibaye 30, abakoze jenoside nta mitungo bagifite cyangwa baranayigurishije ku buryo ntacyo bashobora gutanga. Gusa abatsindira indishyi niba ari benshi, abacamanza bazagera aho bajye bazigabanya kugira ngo bazakwirwe.
Kuba n’ubundi hari amafaranga ntarengwa Leta yemeye gutanga (amayero ibihumbi 3, asaga gato miliyoni 4 z’amafaranga y’u Rwanda, Ndlr) ugereranyije wenda n’indishyi zaba zatsindiwe, ntabwo ibyo dukora bizaba ari ugukora ubusa kuko icyaha cyarabaye kandi ni icyaha gikomeye. Gusa Leta y’u Bufaransa ni yo igomba kureba uko ayo mafaranga yakoreshwa neza akagirira akamaro abatsindiye indishyi, naho ubu haracyariho igisa no kuyasesagura kandi n’ayo bemera gutanga ubwabo wumva ko ari ubusa. Indishyi y’akababaro ntabwo ari impano, abakorewe ibyaha barayikeneye. Bitabaye ibyo byaba ari nka bya bindi byabaye muri Loni ku manza za TPIR, aho abantu 60 baciriwe imanza ariko nta ndishyi z’akababaro zabayeho.
PXP: Mu gusoza, mwatubwira ku mutekano w’abatangabuhamya n’abarokotse jenoside baba hano mu Bufaransa?
M.K: Nta bikorwa ndumva hano mu Bufaransa byo guhohohotera abarokotse jenoside mu buryo ubwo aribo bwose. Ku bijyanye n’abatangabuhamya bava mu Rwanda cyangwa ahandi hirya no hino ku isi, hari serivisi ishinzwe kubacungira umutekano kuva bagera ino mpaka batashye. Nta kibazo cy’umutekano wabo gihari.
PXP: Murakoze kuri iki kiganiro muduhaye.
M.K: Namwe murakoze.
Byakusanyijwe na:
HIGIRO Adolphe
Paris – FRANCE
